Braves sniffing around on Markakis; Official 4 years 44 million.

thewupk said:
Well if we are rebuilding then why not internal options? If you must sign somebody then find someone for a two year deal. There should be several 1-2 WAR players that could had for that. Going long term for an average player just to fill a spot when you are rebuilding doesn't make a lot of sense.
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You can rebuild and still use the money allotted for your payroll. The Braves were going to have a 110ish million payroll anyways. We should just sit on that extra 25-30 million and let Liberty pocket it?
 
Actually I just read a report where Willingham is retiring. That's surprising. Missed that before.
 
Hawk said:
It lends itself greatly to the theory of the Braves desire to move Heyward having little to do with finance.
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You don't call out and trash someone as prominently connected to the Braves organization on twitter as Heyward did and expect to keep your job.
 
I think Markakis is a decent player, but if we sign him to a 3- or 4-year deal, we're crazy. MFII is right. The last two years of the contract may be Melvinesque.

I don't know if the Braves were in on Torii Hunter, but at $10.5 MM, I thought he would have been a decent one-year option.
 
Another Markakis alternative would be Andy Dirks, who was non-tendered by TOR. He is a year younger, but definitely has more injury risk than Markakis. Like Markakis, he is a LHH with a minimal platoon split and averagish RF defense. Below are 2015 Steamer projections for each. Markakis is a better and more durable player, but Dirks can surely be had on a small one-year deal. Don't get me wrong . . . I'd like to aim higher than Dirks. Just a quick case study on why we should be careful not to overpay in $ or years with Markakis.

Markakis: 268 / 334 / 381
Dirks: 259 / 321 / 394
 
Carp said:
You can rebuild and still use the money allotted for your payroll. The Braves were going to have a 110ish million payroll anyways. We should just sit on that extra 25-30 million and let Liberty pocket it?
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Sure. But why use it to lock up an average player that's over 30 for 4 years? That's not the move that we need to make if 2017 is 'the year'. If you can get someone that's going to be apart of the core and is young then do it. But we don't need another BJ on the roster when the new stadium is open.
 
Carp said:
1st of all, WAR isn't the king of stats. Regardless, your statement is very misleading as his one outlier season severely brings down his average WAR. He's consistently been a 2.0-2.5 WAR player over that span, aside from 2013.
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Actually hes also had years in the high 1's in WAR as well. So no he hasnt been 2.0 to 2.5 in that span. And if 2013 is an outlier then 2014 should be as well since it was his best season in years. And I'm not convincned his average defense that he showed in 2014 is for real either as he's been well below average the previous 5 seasons. I suspect he will once again be a poor defender in 2015. He's an average player any way you look at it. And signing him for 4 seasons is a mistake given what the Braves are trying to do.
 
I hope Hart weighs carefully the effects of any monetary commitment to Markakis (or any other outfielder) on our ability to hold on to Justin. Unless he has unrealistic demands (significantly north of $20M per year) I'd prioritize extenting Justin and be willing to scrimp a bit on whichever outfielder we bring in.
 
nsacpi said:
I hope Hart weighs carefully the effects of any monetary commitment to Markakis (or any other outfielder) on our ability to hold on to Justin. Unless he has unrealistic demands (significantly north of $20M per year) I'd prioritize extenting Justin and be willing to scrimp a bit on whichever outfielder we bring in.
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I would agree. You can mix and match with a couple of C+ guys.

I know I harp on it a lot (the rest of my stringed instruments are in the shop so I only have a harp), but the pickle we find ourselves in is almost directly related to the paucity of talent in the upper levels of our farm system, which appears to be populated with 4th/5th OFs.
 
Carp said:
You can rebuild and still use the money allotted for your payroll. The Braves were going to have a 110ish million payroll anyways. We should just sit on that extra 25-30 million and let Liberty pocket it?
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If the plan is to punt 2015 and possibly 2016 with an eye towards competing in 2017, maybe the best move would be to escrow enough of this year's payroll to cover Bad Upton's 2016 or 2017 salary. This of course assumes that we can't find a sucker to take him before the season starts. That way if/when he sucks this year we can write him a check for both 2016 and 2017 at the end of the year and tell him to take a hike. Or we can send that money along with BJ to a new team without having to dip into payroll for the first year in the new park.

I'd rather do something like this as opposed to spending the money on mediocre to bad players just for the sake of pretending to compete.
 
DirkPiggler said:
If the plan is to punt 2015 and possibly 2016 with an eye towards competing in 2017, maybe the best move would be to escrow enough of this year's payroll to cover Bad Upton's 2016 or 2017 salary. This of course assumes that we can't find a sucker to take him before the season starts. That way if/when he sucks this year we can write him a check for both 2016 and 2017 at the end of the year and tell him to take a hike. Or we can send that money along with BJ to a new team without having to dip into payroll for the first year in the new park.

I'd rather do something like this as opposed to spending the money on mediocre to bad players just for the sake of pretending to compete.
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Good points Dirk. You can only spend a dollar once and every dollar we don't spend on players on the field could be used as seasoning to make the swallowing of Melvin's horrid contract somewhat more palatable.

I hate to bring up the local nine up here in Minnesota (whom I generally, if not despise, readily deride), but signing Markakis would be a "Twins Move." Looks good to the average fan and gives the impression that the front office is serious about competing. The Twins hung onto Molitor an extra year because Tom Kelly liked watching him hit (and the Twins lost 92 with a bunch of guys that Kelly loved because they played the "right way"). As I said earlier, Markakis is a decent player and might be an option for the Braves if he were willing to be a two-year place holder. Length of contract is almost everything here and if the current front office doesn't understand the problems created when that concept was abandoned by the previous front office, we're in for a long performance trough.
 
50PoundHead said:
Good points Dirk. You can only spend a dollar once and every dollar we don't spend on players on the field could be used as seasoning to make the swallowing of Melvin's horrid contract somewhat more palatable.

I hate to bring up the local nine up here in Minnesota (whom I generally, if not despise, readily deride), but signing Markakis would be a "Twins Move." Looks good to the average fan and gives the impression that the front office is serious about competing. The Twins hung onto Molitor an extra year because Tom Kelly liked watching him hit (and the Twins lost 92 with a bunch of guys that Kelly loved because they played the "right way"). As I said earlier, Markakis is a decent player and might be an option for the Braves if he were willing to be a two-year place holder. Length of contract is almost everything here and if the current front office doesn't understand the problems created when that concept was abandoned by the previous front office, we're in for a long performance trough.
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Yep, this. A long-term deal at market prices for this guy would have us tearing out our hair in a year or two, if not sooner.
 
nsacpi said:
Interesting Markakis article. Pay particular attention to the distance on batted ball data. Even if we don't sign him, I think it reflects poorly on our front office that we are kicking the tires on this guy.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/what-are-we-missing-about-nick-markakis/
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Quite simply, it's the valuation of defense...the "range" portion of it specifically. As evidenced by the "Heyward ordeal", many teams just don't value elite defense, range especially, unless it is up the middle. I am not entirely convinced stats like DRS and UZR paint a good enough picture to make claims like "Heyward saved XX runs this year, and was therefore worth YY wins, which translates to ZZ dollars", and I'm quite certain many teams feel the same way about those stats.

Until the real radar data tracking the movement of all players and batted balls is available, I don't think the value of defense can be accurately pinned down. Teams aren't likely to make multi-million dollar decisions based on whether some random guy categorized a batted ball as a line drive or a flyball that was in or out of some players "zone", especially not when the player's starting position is taken into account.

And don't even get me started on the false assumption that defense adds linearly in reality as you add more and more "runs saved" to your roster. At some point there stops being runs to save, or at least diminishing returns.

Markakis is seen as a solid OBP guy with no platoon split that can play an average RF. In a time of terrible offenses, that consistency is going to hold value. Who's right? Who knows.

I would much rather see the Braves scoop up Aoki for half the price, and I've been advocating him all offseason.
 
I find the qualifications to be a candidate to man the outfield for the Atlanta Braves on this board to be a bit unrealistic.

Candidate must have all of the following:

Under 29 years of age

Upward performance curve

Above Average Defense

Above Average Health

High OBP

Average to above power potential

Want less than 13 million a year on a short term deal

Did I miss anything?

This player is out of our price range, so we are going to have to cave on our demands a bit folks.
 
Tapate50 said:
I find the qualifications to be a candidate to man the outfield for the Atlanta Braves on this board to be a bit unrealistic.

Candidate must have all of the following:

Under 29 years of age

Upward performance curve

Above Average Defense

Above Average Health

High OBP

Average to above power potential

Want less than 13 million a year on a short term deal

Did I miss anything?

This player is out of our price range, so we are going to have to cave on our demands a bit folks.
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Where's Hard Hittin Mark Whitten when you need him?
 
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