AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
If so, curious about something that I want you to answer.
Any Episcopalians?
- Thread starter AerchAngel
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AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Only Episcopalians can answer this, so here is the question. There is a divide in the church and a reversal of a movement that someone started about 18 years ago of inclusiveness. That was not the main issue, Spong wanted to throw the teachings/prayer book out and replace it with his own religious dogma. The leaders did not like it and there was a split. Now talking to the ones today said that Spong was a heretic and I can hear resentment in their voices of how his approach and teachings tore their house down. If you are a participant of that church, are you under a certain Synod or are they still divided. Their hierarchy branches in so many places I can't keep up.
Good people with big hearts.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
I'm not an Episcopalian. I am a Presbyterian with a very high appreciation for the BCP and Anglicanism in general.
Spong is a heretic.
He's not the only one.
It's not all about Spong.
There are now several varieties of "Episcopalianism" or "Anglicanism" in the US. Some recognized by some and some not. And there's a worldwide Anglican debate really about this all and one hard for those not in the thick of things to figure out.
I've got a dear friend who is the pastor/rector of an Anglican congregation recognized, and under the oversight or the Anglican Church in Rwanda. I've got another friend who's a part of the Reformed Episcopal Church (which I believe is connected or a part of ACNA now). And I have a priest friend who is still in the TEC (The Episcopal Church). I consider them all Anglican.
Spong is a heretic.
He's not the only one.
It's not all about Spong.
There are now several varieties of "Episcopalianism" or "Anglicanism" in the US. Some recognized by some and some not. And there's a worldwide Anglican debate really about this all and one hard for those not in the thick of things to figure out.
I've got a dear friend who is the pastor/rector of an Anglican congregation recognized, and under the oversight or the Anglican Church in Rwanda. I've got another friend who's a part of the Reformed Episcopal Church (which I believe is connected or a part of ACNA now). And I have a priest friend who is still in the TEC (The Episcopal Church). I consider them all Anglican.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Thanks for confirming this. I am in a heated debate with someone on another board who thinks Spong is the second coming of Christ teaching what true Christianity is. I was like WTF, you actually believe his crap and the church is divided because he was like the grass roots due to his teaching.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
Being a fan boy of Spong is so 80s.
keithlaw
Playing the Waiting Game
Wasn't he the guy who sold his soul to a demon so he could visit his wife again?
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Well, the 1980s, anyway. Some of the parties to the various schisms would prefer 1880, 1780, or 1680.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
I was raised Episcopal, but never really researched it hierarchically or institutionally—just knew it was a haven for lapsed Catholics down in Dixie, and that I was meant to be a big fan of Henry VIII.
However, I made a cursory perusal of John Spong's wiki page and, I have to say, I personally really like the way he thinks.
However, I made a cursory perusal of John Spong's wiki page and, I have to say, I personally really like the way he thinks.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
In what way, God doesn't exist? Or Jesus Christ was a caricature or myths of His miracles? Or that the Old Testament is myths as well? He doesn't believe in JC as the savior and God could be questioned, which made him a heretic in his church.
We say, those who aren't in any religion, a serious heretic and a Joseph wannabe but he is too damn old to make his own church which I heard he wanted but couldn't get enough peeps to enlighten him.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Well, I don't think that's really what Spong advocates—but that is what I believe.
Even if I did have faith in some divine entity, and chose to participate in some vaguely-Christianity-based institutional because of that, I'd want that institution to maintain what I would call a historically sensible understanding of Christ ... which I guess you could essentially describe "that he was mythic, as were the so-called miracles ascribed to him."
Likewise to the previous—but even more so. (I do find the Old Testament myths a little more entertaining, though.)
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Everyone I know in three different states thinks he is a heretic and the person who made their church divide and lose a lot of members.
Gays is acceptable, most religions have no problem with that, but saying JC did no miracles and not the true son of God and just a fictional character and denounce everything He does. WHOA!!!
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Well, full disclosure: I myself am a heretic.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
Yeah, I'd prefer the historical church over Spong any day. I mean if you are going to repudiate creedal Christianity, why call yourself a Christian? Just be honest and move along. Machen was so right...
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
If I didn't know Spong truly held the views he does I'd swear he was a parody of "Liberal Christianity."
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
I am too, but this guy belongs in a looney bin. Me being a heretic means I don't believe in religion created by man.
He sounds like a mix of Jim Jones and Joseph Smith, that is a concoction I want no part of.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
I think that the current divisions in the community have less to do with Spong and more to do with the same kind of liberal/progressive vs. conservative/traditional questions that exist in most mainline protestant churches. There were schisms over the ordination of women in the 70s and over the ordination of gays in the 2000. I'm not sure what your friends' particular situations are, but in my experience, Spong is irrelevant.
Gays is acceptable, most religions have no problem with that,
Well, not exactly. I'd guess that's the main reason that BB's friend's parish is in communion with the Primate of Rwanda and not the ECUSA.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
His name came up each time. That is why I brought this up and fighting with a Spong tool. Of course he ejected from the thread when everyone piled on him. He was mad at me because I said Spong is no different than Jim Jones and Joseph Smith, a warp sense of rewriting a document that is thousands years old to fit his views of Christianity.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
I think the social issue follows the theological (though I wouldn't want to draw too fine of a line here) for his parish. I think it's unfortunate that for some separation comes over fruit of theological heterodoxy rather than the rank-root heresy. Though as some argue the libido often drives the heresy.
BedellBrave
It's OVER 5,000!
It's a pet peeve of mine - so pardon me if this comes across wrong; but, I don't care for loosely bandying about the term "heretic." Heretic, at least in regards to Christianity, has fairly clear and historical parameters. It typically means a rejection of one or more of the central teachings of the Church found enumerated in the great Ecumenical Creeds of the Church - think Apostles and Nicene Creeds. So if you have begun in communion with an orthodox church and then reject the Trinity, or the humanity and divinity of Jesus Christ, or his virgin birth or resurrection or return, etc., you've earned the term "heretic." I think you need to just drop the idea that you are Christian. But if you haven't and don't then the label "heretic" doesn't apply.