Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
So which of these would have prevented the perpetrators from access to their murder weapon?
Church shooting - Sutherland Springs, Texas
- Thread starter thethe
- Start date
So which of these would have prevented the perpetrators from access to their murder weapon?
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAH!!!
Felons will be felons and do felony stuff, damn the po po, they have to catch them first.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Other countries do not have shooting ranges or stores that sell weapons except I think Austria who are more heavily armed per citizen than the US and all legal. Most arms in the US are bought illegally and carried by felons. You aren't going to take their guns away and they are stock piling them now because sooner or later guns will be illegal and they will make a killing on the black market.
Mental Illness and politicizing in all facets is causing this problem. We had more assault rifles in the streets in the 60's, 70's and 80's and stuff like this rarely happens, but also doing that time, we had mental illness awareness and putting people away. Coincidence?
Also if a person is willing to go to these lengths and won't survive, it doesn't matter how much a weapons will cost, he will still buy it. McVeigh used explosives and we might see something like that happen again and we will be back to square one....why motivate someone to do that.
Funny, I have yet to see a female do this in any ethnic group unless I missed one. Most have been angry white males with a few screws loose.
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
Gun control would have prevented none of these shootings. If someone wants to kill people, they have other EASIER means to do so. I am thinking these evil people knows after they are dead and gone, the destruction of gun laws will keep it going and them relevant.
Vehicles, gasoline bombs, Anthrax, other means of killing people is readily available if guns aren't.
Typical week in Chicago is worst than this and no one says anything and I would love the police to go door to door and try to obtain the weapons, but we will see a lot of dead police if that happens.
Vehicles, gasoline bombs, Anthrax, other means of killing people is readily available if guns aren't.
Typical week in Chicago is worst than this and no one says anything and I would love the police to go door to door and try to obtain the weapons, but we will see a lot of dead police if that happens.
57Brave
Well-known member
Just focusing on this portion
First off, this is why you hit the profiteers.
The model being tobacco and lung cancer.
Shift the burden of blame/responsibility to those that make a buck off of selling weapons and ammunition.
Felons can own all of the weaponry they esire but if they have nothing to load or way to explode a projectile ...
Everyone taking responsibility - from the Board of Directors of Smith-Wesson/Colt and their trust fund kids to the pawn broker selling Saturday night specials South Side Chicago.
If hunt clubs want to shoot and play target practice, public safety demands they adopt the English (Austrian ? ) hunt club model
AerchAngel
<B>Secretary of Statistics</B>
nothing wrong with your post 57 and I agree to a certain degree, but it will not stop these mass murders via gun. They will use other means, just like cars/vans heaven forbid a tank ramming a high rise, which is the most scariest thought out there.
57Brave
Well-known member
This is something we can do in short order though.
there will be deranged people, always have been always will be.
Which as well needs to be addressed, and is being addressed in the form of comprehensive mental health insurance. But that takes time and is far from foolproof.
But this is something that can be done.
Between Las Vegas and Texas upwards of 80 people lost their lives.
2 events.
The pastors 14 year old daughter.
..............................
There is so much wrong that can be fixed with our country yet ... yet
there will be deranged people, always have been always will be.
Which as well needs to be addressed, and is being addressed in the form of comprehensive mental health insurance. But that takes time and is far from foolproof.
But this is something that can be done.
Between Las Vegas and Texas upwards of 80 people lost their lives.
2 events.
The pastors 14 year old daughter.
..............................
There is so much wrong that can be fixed with our country yet ... yet
57Brave
Well-known member
NYT report:
COLORADO SPRINGS — The 26-year-old gunman who entered a rural Texas church with a ballistic vest and a military-style rifle, killing at least 26 people on Sunday, had been trailed by trouble for years. Devin Patrick Kelley, a former member of the United States Air Force, had been convicted at court-martial and jailed for domestic abuse, kicked out of the military, divorced and charged with animal cruelty.
In 2012, while stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Mr. Kelley was charged with “assault on his spouse and assault on their child” according to Ann Stefanek, the Air Force’s chief of media operations. He was convicted at court-martial and sentenced in November of that year to twelve months confinement and reduction to the lowest possible rank, E-1. After his confinement, he was discharged from the military with a bad conduct discharge. It is unclear whether his conviction would have barred him from purchasing a gun.
That same year, he was divorced in New Mexico from his first wife, according to court records. When he was discharged from the Air Force in 2014, Mr. Kelley remarried in Texas to Danielle Lee Shields in April of that year, according to state records.
A few months later he registered to vote in Colorado Springs — a city with several Air Force bases — listing his address as parking space 60 at a shabby collection of trailers in a gravel lot called the Fountain Creek RV Park.
A woman living in a camper next door, who gave her name only as Susan, said a man of similar age and description lived in spot 60 for a few months during that time, but she never learned his name.
“He was kind of off, lived here with a woman,” she said as she loaded blankets into one of the RV Park’s washing machines.
He said hello a few times in passing but was never friendly and stayed only a few months. She never heard any arguments from his trailer.
“The only thing that sticks out about him was his dog,” she said.
He had a pit bull puppy that he kept tied up in the sun all day outside of his RV, she said. She also recalled an incident where police were called because the man had struck the dog in the head.
Photo
Devin Patrick Kelley. Credit via Texas Department of Public Safety
The police arrived and there was a standoff for approximately an hour, she said, in which her neighbor refused to come out of his trailer.
Records show Mr. Kelley was charged with cruelty to animals, a misdemeanor, in August 2014. The case was dismissed. He moved out a few weeks later, she said.
Mr. Kelly, whose father, Michael Kelly, is a computer programmer and accountant, enlisted in the Air Force soon after graduating from New Braunfels High School in 2009. Devin Kelly served as a low-ranking airman in a logistics readiness battalion. A Linkedin account in his name says he worked in cargo and distribution.
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By 2017 he had returned to a house in New Braunfels that records show was owned by his parents. The house was about an hour from the church where the shooting occurred.
Michael Kelley, in a short biography posted on the website of his small software company, Dilloware, said the family has three children. Devin Kelley is the middle child.
“Building the company at the same time as our family involved a whirlwind of activity,” he wrote. “Lots of late hours and sacrifices.”
On Sunday, police cars from the Comal County Sheriff’s Department lined the gunman’s driveway on a rural stretch of land in New Braunfels. Wire fences kept visitors from the house, which was hidden by overgrown grass that fills the property.
Signs on a cattle gate at the entrance read “no trespassing” and “beware of dog”.
“I don’t know anybody down there,” said Sabas Gonzales, who can see Mr. Kelley’s driveway from hers. Ms. Gonzalez, 70, said she’d lived there for more than two decades and many of her neighbors had come over to introduce themselves when they moved in, but nobody from Mr. Kelley’s home ever stopped by.
“Out here, people tend to keep to themselves,” said Tim Daughtrey, who cuts cedar for clients in the area, and lives in walking distance from Mr. Kelley’s home. Mr. Daughtrey, 40, said the town was mostly uneventful, as far as crime goes. “I see a barroom fight every now and then, but never no shootings.”
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
I'm also not sure if anyone has posted how the killer was stopped, so I'll leave this here. Apologies if it was already pointed out.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-sutherland-springs-gunmanand-helped-prevent/
Stephen Willeford, who lives near the Texas church targeted yesterday, grabbed his own rifle and rushed to confront Devin Kelley after being told an attack was under way by his daughter.
As the 55-year-old arrived outside the church he came face-to-face with Kelley.
Mr Willeford, a plumber with no military experience, shot him in the side through a gap in his body armour, forcing the killer to flee.
Mr Willeford and another passing resident, Johnnie Langedorff, then chased him at almost 100 miles per hour in a car as the wounded killer tried to make a getaway after taking a hostage.
Thank God Mr. Willeford was able to purchase his rifle and afford the ammunition it was loaded with.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-sutherland-springs-gunmanand-helped-prevent/
Stephen Willeford, who lives near the Texas church targeted yesterday, grabbed his own rifle and rushed to confront Devin Kelley after being told an attack was under way by his daughter.
As the 55-year-old arrived outside the church he came face-to-face with Kelley.
Mr Willeford, a plumber with no military experience, shot him in the side through a gap in his body armour, forcing the killer to flee.
Mr Willeford and another passing resident, Johnnie Langedorff, then chased him at almost 100 miles per hour in a car as the wounded killer tried to make a getaway after taking a hostage.
Thank God Mr. Willeford was able to purchase his rifle and afford the ammunition it was loaded with.
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
Right. The law says this guy was not allowed to own the gun that he used to commit this crime.
I for one am shocked [SHOCKED!] that a person willing to commit the crime of murder was also willing to commit the crime of illegally owning a gun.
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
as my baseball coach you to tell us, cry me real tears and i might care
my mom who is the most religious person i know stopped going to a prayer group when they sat around talking about how sad it was for a certain person and that they should pray for them. She sat there and was like, "we can actually help that person by doing something" and they just said they should pray
if you're feelings are hurt, sorry but not sorry. as i have said, i'm done being nice over the garbage do nothing sentiments after each one of these
goldfly
<B>if my thought dreams could be seen</B>
if your response to this is "**** happens, we might as well do nothing cause it will be hard to change"
then you can join the "we won't change anything but pray" group and go **** off too
Jaw
It's OVER 5,000!
The Steve Scalise shooting, this atheist attacking a church, the Rand Paul attack, the San Bernardino attack, the Tennessee church shooting...maybe we need to start checking political affiliation as part of the gun purchase background check. It seems like a lot of those on the Left side of things are having a hard time controlling their emotions.
chop2chip
Well-known member
I don't think gun reform changes the equation much, but I sure as hell am willing to find out.
There may simply be too many guns out in the wild to make a difference, but it's crazy to me that we actually have to have a debate about whether making guns illegal would lessen the possibility of a mass shooting. It literally can only help.
There may simply be too many guns out in the wild to make a difference, but it's crazy to me that we actually have to have a debate about whether making guns illegal would lessen the possibility of a mass shooting. It literally can only help.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
This goes along with what has been, consistently, my fairly quiet plea in the aftermath of all of these events. People who otherwise appeal to logic and reason seem to be immune from it in this conversation.
To the extent that the issue has been studied--which is limited because the gun lobby has shut down federal study of the issue--the data says that a gun in the household is more likely to harm someone in the household than to protect them. If this incident--where 26 people were killed by one assailant--is held up as an advertisement for gun ownership because an armed citizen chased the shooter away, I'm at a loss to understand why this is an advertisement for more guns in our society.